Transcript for December 2019

RCP OPEN HOUSE - December 2019


>> Do I; okay. Thank you for being here. I'm Mark Tucker, Rehabilitation Counseling Program. There are other faculty here, I'll introduce them in a couple minutes. But I think what we want to start out with is a little video that's on our -- we have on our website; you may have already seen it. If not, you can sit and watch reruns of it by going back over and checking on it. But it's just a couple minutes; it's going to be four minutes long, and it's narrated by our department chair, and it gives a little bit of information about what rehabilitation counseling is, along with some comments from former students.

[ Background Sounds ]

>> Thank you for taking a few minutes to check out our master of science degree in rehabilitation counseling, and our various options. Even though rehabilitation counseling has been around as a career since the 1950s, not everyone knows what rehabilitation counselors do. Counselors partner with individuals with disabilities to help them make informed choices, build viable careers, live independently in the community, and pursue meaningful lives. The primary focus, the career preparation in rehabilitation, is developing counseling skills, acquiring knowledge of disabilities, and demonstrating respect and sensitivity for people with disabilities. Knowledge and practice of these principles, combined with a solid foundation of specialized education in the rehabilitation field, enable dedicated rehabilitation professionals to help individuals with disabilities achieve their goals. Individuals supported by rehabilitation counselors include wounded warriors from Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere, teenagers with disabilities transitioning from school to adult life, and persons who experience physical or sensory disabilities through injuries and illness, whether they were born with the disability, or acquired them later in life. Students in our program can complete the master's in rehabilitation counseling degree through both on-campus and distance options. The degree is 60 semester units, and typically takes two and a half to three years to complete. Students learn to create, deliver, and evaluate rehabilitation training programs and services. Upon graduation, a rehabilitation counselor is qualified to work in a wide variety of settings. The outlook for employment in rehabilitation counseling is excellent. Our graduates typically find employment as counselors, evaluators, assistive technology specialists, in a variety of settings, including governmental agencies, community programs, and other nonprofit or private agencies. Our program is distinguished by how we respond to the needs of local, state, and international communities. We actively engage with our community partners to develop curriculum, create applied assignments, advocate for needed services and programs, and present a real life perspective to the work of rehabilitation counseling. Here are some testimonials about the rehabilitation counseling master's degree at San Diego State University, from current students, alumni, and employers.

>> The professors have been tremendous. They have been supportive. And most of all, and most importantly in this field, they've been like family.

>> Just from the start, I felt very welcomed from the faculty and staff, as well as the students. I got a lot of guidance from the students, especially some of the second-year students that I met.

>> So I think that the program always takes time out to make sure that we learn more about veterans, and veterans are able to share within each class their experiences, and what they've been through.

>> Well, you know, I work with plenty of the graduates who come through this program, I mean, and I can't tell you how -- as an alumni of this program how proud I am to work with those students who come through here, because they're some of the finer students that come through the program.

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>> As a rehab counselor, I think this program to me is the best in the nation; and not just the rehab counseling but the whole institution.

>> We encourage you to explore the rest of our website to learn more about our program. We look forward to hearing from you.

[ Music ]

>> Okay, so a little bit of information about the program. We'll obviously share a lot more. The rehabilitation counseling program at San Diego State has been in existence for over 45 years?

>> Yes.

>> So it's got a bit of a history, and a number of -- some of the earliest faculty that sort of started up the program are still working with us today. So there's -- they're not teaching so much anymore, but they're still with us, and it's a number of them. And that's I think a really important contribution. Ah, you found me; cool. [Laughter] So the purpose of the open house pretty much is to kind of share a little bit more about the rehabilitation counseling program so that you can be a little bit more familiar, and meet some of our faculty. One of our staff was going to be here, but is sick. Come on in.

>> Hi.

>> And meet some of the program alumni.

[ Off-Topic Dialogue ]

Meet some of the program alumni, and then hopefully we'll have a couple current students come in as well who will share a little bit of information in the second half of the open house about the application process, as well as kind of answering questions that you might have about the program. So with that, I'm hoping that we [inaudible] interest in prospective students that -- the two of you. [Laughs] Just a real quick introduction [inaudible], maybe with your names, the person [inaudible] the little video that said there is a distance, and a face-to-face option. So if you have an interest in one of those, [inaudible] would be helpful. And a little just like what you might hope to learn today would be helpful.

>> Okay. I'm [inaudible]. I am a [inaudible] counselor. I'm [inaudible] so I've been doing [inaudible] counseling since [inaudible]. I enjoy doing counseling, and I think that delivery is a big difference with [inaudible]. And I think that we've rushed a lot of people out when they're no longer [inaudible] without giving [inaudible]. They don't give us a lot of info on that side to share that [inaudible] with them as far as [inaudible] and that's about it. So it's something that I'm definitely passionate about, and that I'm interested in learning a lot more about how I can continue to take care of service members [inaudible]. So I'm interested in what the curriculum entails. I am interested in what the hours are, what classes look like; because I also have two -- I had my children later on in my career, so I have [inaudible] and now that I'm retired I am also very focused on them.

>> Yes.

>> So I'm also interested in the cost of the program [inaudible] the undergrad level [inaudible].

>> Great; thanks.

>> [Inaudible]. [Laughter] Anyway, my name is Kristen [inaudible], and let's see, I -- my background is -- actually I have an MBA, and I also have bipolar disorder, so I have those two things for me. And I've been on SOTI [phonetic] for the last eight years or so. And it was only three, four months ago that I learned of the Department of Rehab.

>> Yes.

>> Nobody told me that stuff.

>> Yes.

>> Oh, no, no, no, no. [Laughs] And I currently -- like I'm a mentor in a -- it's called [inaudible] people with mental illness, you'd say "mental illness" to individuals with mental illness. And I facilitated a support group. And so that's kind of what brought my interest here. And as far as the -- I just want to learn more about what the program is, what people do with the -- if they are [inaudible]. You know, I know I can get the Department of Rehab to fund me, but I need to know what it is that I -- you know, what I -- what my options are.

>> Yes.

>> You know, and from the research that I've been doing, I see that there are still a lot of [inaudible] for that.

>> Yes.

>> So that's my story, I'm sticking to it. [Laughter] [Overlapping] --

>> Sounds good. [Laughter] Well, thank you. And the next part of introductions [inaudible] faculty to introduce themselves. So Chuck, [inaudible]?

>> Sure. Hi, my name is Chuck Ishnef [assumed spelling]. I am a professor in the Rehab Counseling Program, I'm also the interim chair of the department, just for the semester for a couple more weeks. And then [inaudible], the narrator for the video, will be taking over again. But within the program I focus on cognitive disability, and we have a specialization and certificate program. Ad we'll be talking about that, you know, further tonight; but it focuses on cognitive disabilities. Crystal is one of our alumni, went through that program. And basically in that program we focus on brain injury, we talk about autism, intellectual disability, and also learning disabilities. And so, you know, the things that I focus on in that specialization I think are really looking at students who really have, you know, that kind of interest, wanting to work for those populations. Because I've had a number of students go on to work for the VA; the DOR is a very common employer. And I probably would say the third highest employer is the community college system in the DSPS office -- [Inaudible Comment] [Laughter] Which Crystal works with.

>> Yes.

>> So that's a part of the community colleges that work with students with disabilities, helping to plan accommodations and helping to -- helping students with disabilities to be successful in a community college environment. And then in terms of my own personal research, do a lot of research on brain injury, and especially family issues, like how families plan for the future, how they're personally impacted by the brain injuries to another family member. You know, and so one of the areas I've looked at and Mark and I have done some research, I've looked at siblings as like one of the specialty populations, just because the idea that, you know, they likely will be future caregivers, and they also are deeply impacted by the injury but often in the rehabilitation system they're kind of ignored; you know, they're not really, you know, talked to, they're not really -- you know, nobody really kind of checks in with them in terms of, you know, what they're experiencing. And then just in terms of my own -- like the classes I teach, we have a couple specialization classes in the cognitive disabilities area, so just the classes only focus on cognitive disabilities; so I teach those. I also teach the assessment classes in the program. Sometimes I also teach internship practicum, just a wide variety of different areas. But I'm really happy to have you both here, and really happy that you're interested in the program. [Inaudible Comment]

>> So hi, I'm Sonya Peterson [assumed spelling].

>> Hi.

>> Hi; good to see you.

>> Nice to meet you. [Overlapping Comments]

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>> So I'm just finishing my first semester as an assistant professor with this department. But I taught for a few years as an adjunct. And I worked at Department of Rehab for about 16 years. So my area in the department is the psychiatric rehabilitation specialization. We have three of the training grants in the department, so the grants that I oversee we fund students that are all -- everybody that's getting their grant right now is on the track to meet state license requirements. And if you want to hear a lot of detailed information about like job opportunities that are available with the -- it's called the "LPCC" in California, "Licensed Professional Clinical Counselor". I did a -- if you Google "San Diego State" and the word "brownbag", it will -- the website will come up. And I did a presentation a while ago. It is -- it's more work because once you get done with your program, then you have to find somebody that will supervise you, and you've got to do 3,000 hours of supervision, which takes a -- if you're working fulltime it takes between two and there years. But if that's an interest -- I mean, you're going to be working after you finish your degree anyway, so it's just -- it's some additional work that you have to do. And there's another exam -- there are two exams, there's a California Law and Ethics exam, and then there's a national counselor exam. But we talk about that all through the program. But there are some extra classes that you take to go that track, so by the time you get done you have all the course works that you need to meet those licensing requirements. We also have a psychiatric rehab certificate, so students that don't want to do the whole license route, you can take some extra classes and get a certificate in psychiatric rehab. So we focus more on -- yes the more significant psychiatric disabilities. Rehab counseling our philosophy is very like community inclusion, and client autonomy, and really focused on work, because work helps people break out of that cycle of poverty and socialized [inaudible]. So we really focused on trauma-informed care, yes, working with the more significant psychiatric disabilities, because that's part of rehab philosophy is making sure like no matter what somebody's disability is, or how significant it is, that we advocate for community inclusion and employment and all that good stuff. So that's -- I guess that's a little bit about my focus. But --

>> What classes do you teach?

>> Oh, I teach the Intro to Rehab Counseling, the foundations class, and the job development for people with disabilities. Next semester I'll have an internship, and one of our psychiatric rehab classes, and art series class.

>> Yes.

>> So that's me.

>> And what kind of research do you do?

>> Oh, my research -- right now Marge Olney [assumed spelling], who is -- she's partly retired, though, she was the director of the Psych Rehab, focused -- so we've been working together applying for grants and so forth, so we're -- right now we're in the process of applying for a SAMHSA grant; that's the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. So we're looking to train ten rehab counseling programs in substance abuse disorder screening and treatment, like based on SAMHSA's evidence-based models that they recommend; and then just other psych rehab issues, that's kind of my -- oh especially the individual placement and support model. And I'm trying to advocate for services at -- in Department of Rehab that focus on that individual placement and support model. So that's my research area. Did I cover all of it?

>> Yes, yes.

>> Okay.

>> Yes. [Laughter]

>> Anything else you want?

>> [Inaudible] and a few thing we'll get to in more details, I'm sure. So there are a couple of faculty who are here. Dr. Karen [inaudible], who we referenced a couple of times is on sabbatical this semester. She's an integral part of this program and has been so for a long time. Her area of sort of focus is rehabilitation technology; and we'll talk a little bit more about some of the options related to that later on. And she typically teaches a rehabilitation assistance class, and the assistive technology class in our program. Dr. Nan Hampton is retiring at the end of this semester, so you probably won't meet her -- [Inaudible Comment] If you come into the program. I know, I know. And but we will -- we are currently working on hiring a replacement for her, so we'll have hopefully somebody new starting with us in the fall, since that has -- kind of covers similar territory. She does a lot in terms of multicultural counseling with us, dynamics, and that's obviously very important to the field. So we'll bring in somebody with some expertise in that area. And then I'm Mark Tucker, I'm the coordinator of the Rehabilitation Counseling Program. I took that over from Chuck. I did it for a bunch of years, and I'm now [inaudible] how much work it is. [Laughter] I knew it was some work, but it's more than I thought it was going to be. So I still resent him a little bit. [Laughter] I'm trying to be nice to him. And so I teach a two-semester sequence entitled "Medical and Psychological Aspects of Disabilities", and a research method course, that's part of the -- kind of the core curriculum in the program. My sort of research interests I have disability, employment, and postsecondary education, and training kind of come together to an extent. Additional education and training helps to level the playing field for [inaudible]. That type of thing is [inaudible] focus my research efforts. And then here at Inner Works Institute, this is a -- you know, most of our classes and the faculty have offices up on the main campus. We also have this Inner Works Institute that's a part of our core, really. And through the institute we have a number of additional staff who work with us on projects that are all related to disability education and employment. And we have a number of grants and contracts, and we have quite a lot of training and technical assistants who will provide you with different organizations throughout the country and actually sort of beyond the country. And so I tend to try to be involved in all that, as are all of our faculty, in projects that are going on through the Inner Works Institute, [inaudible] allows us to make contributions in other ways. And we don't just teach classes all the time and forget what it's like to be involved in it, you know. So if you, you know, join the program it can be easy to go through it and not kind of pick up on everything that's going on here, but it's -- I would encourage you to investigate that a little bit, because every now and then opportunities [inaudible], like a graduate certificate comes up, you know, through Inner Works. And there's a lot of folks with a lot of just VR, voc rehab knowledge at this point here as well that you could access it and sort of capitalize upon. So I would encourage you to check that out. And in fact, if you want to get to the department website, you have to go through Inner Works' page. [Laughs] It's all listed on the site, but it's a lot more to it than just the academic program itself. So with that, the only people who haven't introduced themselves -- and this has nothing to do with the level of importance or anything like that, is a couple of our [laughter] alumni who were kind enough to -- [Overlapping Comments] Come out here on a rainy day, and --

>> Yes, [overlapping] --

>> So if you could say a little bit about yourself and also share any advice about the program that you'd like to share.

>> Okay. So okay I'm Crystal [inaudible]. I graduated 2014. And so now I'm currently a learning disability specialist, Disability Support Programs and Services counselor at Mira Costa College. I've been at Mira Costa for four months, and I did six years with the San Diego Community College District as a learning disability specialist doing learning disability assessments for individuals who had not been diagnosed with a disability prior to starting college, but who had always [inaudible] heavy like on experiences of, you know, particular things that they found really difficult in intern academics. I also taught noncredit classes, so primarily for students with developmental disabilities [inaudible] intellectual disabilities and, you know, CP and things like that that are -- be associated intellectual disabilities learning as well. But then also the [inaudible] mental health. And as I to into the program, I also pursued Chuck on the disability certificate, and also the psychiatric rehabilitation certificate has, you know, [inaudible] developmental disability and anxiety, depression [inaudible] go hand in hand. [Inaudible], they think in terms of the work that I do I spend a lot of time in the -- and obviously in the academic vocational realm. But it's not -- I mean, just because I work in an educational setting I'm not really [inaudible] academics quest, what does this mean for you [inaudible], and what does this mean for you to just live your life every day? You know, a lot of the academic personal entry or something is what I do. And I do a lot of disability assessments [inaudible]. But similar to this [inaudible] involved with the nonprofit side within the area, state and local agencies and organizations; so [inaudible] and on local boards and that kind of thing. But I'm also a learning disability eligibility and personal trainer for the [inaudible] office. So I get to train all the [inaudible] disability specialists across the state. It's usually exciting because a lot of the individuals that are interested in learning disability assessment and becoming one of the disability specialist have come through the [inaudible] program. [Laughs] And so it's a really cool day. We have these really [inaudible] opportunities to feel the support of individuals, whether it's academics employment, or just, "How do I live my life and be happy?" So it's really exciting. But I think everything that I've learned in the grad program it was like, "Okay, you graduate and here you go; go use that knowledge in your job," which, you know, I don't like to say it, but it's true, in that I still look back at some of the materials and stuff that we've used in the grad program and it's like, "Let me reference -- like I remember talking about this, so me reference that," because it's relevant to what we do every day [inaudible]. And so it's nice to have that knowledge and the resources, as well as the connections that you make with the people that are in the program with you. [Inaudible] with a partner in rehab would be a kind of [inaudible] for, you know -- oh my God, I can't remember the name of it, [inaudible] and all the mental health trauma [inaudible] that you're regularly interacting with; so it's nice to have that -- the content knowledge, but also the network of focus that you had throughout the program like, "Okay, like I know someone there who I can refer you to," and [inaudible] that people appreciate more than just [inaudible], but, "I know this person. Call this person. I will email them and give them a heads up [inaudible]." You know, you'll be reaching out and that kind of thing. But I mean, I could say I would say I owe my career to the Rehab Counseling Program [inaudible]. Hands down it's everything; everything.

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>> Do you want to talk about your work in the doctorate program?

>> Oh, yes, there's that. [Laughter]

>> Yes. [Laughs]

>> So I'm also [inaudible]. Tomorrow's my last day of classes ever in my life.

>> Yay.

>> Yay.

>> Thank you; thank you. So yes, Chuck is my chair. So Chuck knows me very, very well. You interviewed me.

>> I did. I remember that, yes.

>> Chuck interviewed me for the master's, for this rehab counseling program.

>> Yes.

>> So it's [inaudible] both starting and finishing my formal [overlapping] next weekend.

>> Yes.

>> Wow.

>> So I'm sorry, [inaudible]. [Laughter]

>> No.

>> But yes, so I -- in the process of collecting data for my dissertation is for focus on -- the working title was "The Role of Noncredit Courses" and supporting students with autism spectrum disorder, and, you know, [inaudible] for credit course. But now going to the interviews I don't know [inaudible] noncredit, but --

>> Yes, it might be.

>> Because the meaning of noncredit -- but it's really focusing on students who have had these experiences in noncredit courses to be able to [inaudible] just noncredit offerings in San Diego --

>> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Across the state, or [inaudible] of it. But really looking at what role do these noncredit classes [inaudible] for preparing these students to experience their classes or credit courses, [inaudible] for their certificate [inaudible] to their degree. So it's really exciting hearing from the students, as to what -- the role that education played in their life, not just in completion of a degree, but in overall quality of life and personal development. So it's been really, really interesting. [Inaudible] anymore, but just understanding kind of the support that they get from the people in our roles, and how much of a difference and positive influence impact at that time in their life. So it's been nice to know that work is not -- they are going to work every day [inaudible] resources, but that role -- the role that we play, and that connection, and that support that they have from us has really changed their lives, and made it so much better, and really meaningful in terms of employment outcomes. But also just their confidence and self-esteem and who they feel that they are and what they can contribute, that's really exciting. So again, another testament to the program, and how that you build that foundation for that [inaudible] evaluate what we do and how we do it and does this even matter to people, and are we doing it the way that we think we're doing it, and how to get positive [inaudible]. Yes, one more day and [inaudible]. [Laughter] And then Chuck, you won't have to worry about [inaudible]. [Laughter] And then you'll never hear from me again [overlapping] --

>> No, no, no, no, no; no, not at all.

>> Oh, no, they told me [inaudible] anyway, right?

>> Right. [Laughter]

>> Oh, [inaudible].

>> Oh, yes. [Laughter]

>> Your turn.

>> Not him, yes, but him, yes, because this program [inaudible] and I took my -- I want to build people who had no idea [inaudible] -- didn't know what rehab counseling was, until a friend of mine that I went to undergrad with called me [inaudible] this program [inaudible] rehabilitation counseling [inaudible]. The next thing I know I'm sitting in front of [inaudible] program. Now, I'm thinking a few things we're going to [inaudible]. I'm thinking -- no I'm thinking you're going to train me for a job. [Laughter] She may think I'm interviewing for the psych rehab. So these are the [inaudible] going on at that time [inaudible].

>> I remember that. [Laughter]

>> [Overlapping]. But I graduated -- this is my tenth anniversary.

>> Oh.

>> Yay.

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>> So I graduated in 2009 [inaudible], and so I knew I needed to be here for this. And just [inaudible] makes everything so [inaudible], because this hands down has been [inaudible] of my life [inaudible] to come into this program. So I get in, and it took me three years, from 2006 to 2009 to succeed. And I'm going to give a shout-out to the faculty because I graduated with a 3.87 GPA. And because they were so supportive, and they just, you know, come through. When I came onboard, [inaudible], who had retired and had come back, and he was such an integral part of this program, and probably [inaudible].

>> Yes, [inaudible].

>> Yes.

>> Right?

>> Yes.

>> And he -- what really struck a cord with me was that he related to the [inaudible]. And so it was that type of a -- that feeling that I got from all of the [inaudible] through the whole course of the program. And so I -- all he did was try to [inaudible]. But when I came into the program it wasn't here, and we never got to go to the main [inaudible], and the library, and the bookstore, because [inaudible].

>> Yes.

>> It was like -- and I worked [inaudible] as well. So I did [inaudible] and I couldn't [inaudible]. But so I came into the program, and one of the reasons after I realized that I was wanting to do this was that I had been working at the [inaudible] benefit party. And I -- and this is just [inaudible]. And I started seeing all these [inaudible] coming back with all these more serious disabilities. And I'm thinking we have rehab counseling [inaudible]. Most people didn't know about that. And so I think once I finish this degree, then I'll be able to move onto rehab. Within three days after I completed, they hired me in rehab counseling so I [inaudible]. But when I got out of these programs is [inaudible], I started realizing that not just what I've learned here, but what I got [inaudible] from my prior education, my new friends [inaudible]. And so with what I got here, when I was able to contribute from my life experiences, it just all worked together. We had opportunities -- I think my class or my cohort was the only one that has an opportunity for the [inaudible].

>> Yes.

>> [Inaudible] and we were like the guinea pigs. [Laughter] So I'm thinking they told me. And I figured it's just a pleasure chest. [Laughter] [Inaudible]. And so we had a couple pieces of [inaudible] projects, because most of the learning was [inaudible] and interaction. But we had spent ten days in Hong Kong, and we were [inaudible] 7:00 in the morning, 7:00 at night [inaudible] rehab programs [inaudible]. We were just all over. And it was such an eye-opening experience, and then I had to come back and write a paper. My interest was in the topic -- because I'm [inaudible], and I was looking at that aspect of it. So what -- and I'm saying all this to say this, that the faculty the way the course was set up, it allows us to [inaudible] who we are, and what it is that we want, [inaudible]. And so I was able to do that here. A lot of the courses were set up where we were teaching stuff on -- and that is [inaudible]. But I was able to really go to Michael and see what makes me work, how do I [inaudible]? I had no [inaudible], and so I was able to kind of learn that while I was here. The main thing that I believe came for me out of this program was [inaudible] how can I be [inaudible], because I always wanted to find myself, but this really helped push that to the next level. And so what I've been able to do [inaudible] was it made me think about where I am now. See, I'm at the end of my career, and [inaudible], "Okay, but where do I go next?" This was when I was about to come into this program how it would help me to get [inaudible], and I'm saying now that [inaudible] and that's what's making me go into a [inaudible] my application today. So [inaudible] --

>> Is that right?

>> Just last week, and the program coordinator [inaudible] my application what I meant and he says, "Well, who are your -- who was on faculty; who were your professors?" And when I said, "Charles [inaudible]," I could see his face [inaudible]. [Laughter] Really, over the phone I know --

>> That's me.

>> I could see his face light up. And that's just a testament of how our faculty are well-respected nationally and then internationally as well, because I heard some things about Dr. Hampton in China, right? But I can't say enough about this program. And Dr. [inaudible]. And he taught that [inaudible]. [Laughter] Really, he made a picture scene. Who -- how do you go into facilities that [inaudible]? And he was like, "No."

>> At 7:00 at night, yes.

>> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> [Overlapping] he made it so interesting that I got an A. [Laughter] Not only that, but he supported it. He supported anybody who had questions, and I had questions. And I mean, he -- there was just so much support that we [inaudible]. I mean, all of them. I mean, [inaudible]. [Laughter] He and I have become -- and that's another thing, we've developed relationships [inaudible]. Like I said, I reached out to Chuck last week, and I have been able to do that. They'd call me to come in and help [inaudible] because of, you know, [inaudible] very important because of my [inaudible]; not only here but what I [inaudible]. And so it's just been an amazing experience, and I am so proud to be [inaudible], and I still have the connections that I've developed here. And I've been with the faculty, but Dr. Peterson, she and I have known each other [inaudible].

>> Dr. Peterson, it feels so weird to be called that. [Laughter]

>> Right, because we've crossed paths again, and now she's Dr. Peterson. [Laughter] [Inaudible] I really do want to come back, you all. [Laughter] We can repeat --

>> We'll talk later, though.

>> They won't let me repeat [inaudible].

>> No. [Laughter] [Inaudible].

>> Aw.

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>> [Overlapping] we would have to take -- [Inaudible Comment] [Inaudible] and I get my courses [inaudible]. And it's -- I think because I enjoyed it so much it was like [inaudible], you know, and it became part of my life. It is truly like a family, because the faculty is just like that, [inaudible], but still there is -- it's intimate, it's an intimate setting, it's really -- you really get a lot out of it. [Inaudible] because of the VA and we're growing very quickly. Our VR offices have come over to recruit from these programs. And I work with some of my colleagues or some of you a lot, so you just -- you know, you really [inaudible]. I think I thought I [inaudible] [laughter] here, but -- [Inaudible Comment] I know, but yes, everywhere. We are truly everywhere. One of the graduates that came -- yes a few years from now in management in the [inaudible], and he's with the VA. And then we've had people who have been retired and they come back and they [inaudible] this is a great place [inaudible] not only for what you get here, but what you're able to get [inaudible].

>> And it's [inaudible] of the degree; [overlapping] --

>> And I appreciate it, and I -- I mean, initially when I interviewed for the program I wanted to work with veterans.

>> Yes; I remember that. [Laughter]

>> And now that's what I'm doing; but then I got like a graduate student position [inaudible] to colleges, and I was working with students within social disabilities and autism and was like, "Oh my God, like this is where I need to be."

>> Yes; yes.

>> But then just knowing that it -- for me like I've always like the education studying, and so I gravitated towards the community colleges; but knowing that our rehab counseling degree, I can work in DSPS disabilities. I can work in EOPS [phonetic] and first generation students. I can work in general counseling. You can work in veterans counseling. I can work in any counseling realm within the community colleges, in addition to all these other things where I have these certificates from --

>> Right, right, right, right.

>> But then there's the DOR, there's nonprofits, there's regional center. If there is anywhere that really you can go that you do the degree and kind of like, you know, find your niche and like what -- where do you see yourself contributing, and like, "All right, like you're there." And then most likely someone in your cohort or someone from the faculty member is going to know someone that works there --

>> Yes.

>> That can help you then get a volunteer position or an internship, to see what that's like.

>> Yes.

>> And so I know I did that, and I did a few different internships because like, "I want to test out this area, and I want to test out that area." And it was just -- [Inaudible Comment] I was -- I had to test them out and be like, "Hey." Well, it was, "Do I want to work here?"

>> Yes.

>> Not do I like the job, because I knew I would like the job, but do I want to work here?

>> Here; right?

>> And so but this program allows for that, because there's a connection that everybody has, and then the [inaudible] that you learned it's just -- I mean, I can't say enough about it, and that it's -- I definitely felt like when I started my role in this community college that I would be quick with the knowledge and the skill sets to feel like I could succeed. And then of course you learn the job, and you kind of refine those skills. But I definitely felt like going into it that I could be confident doing what I was doing because of the amount of work that you get from the faculty and that I [inaudible], but he has it like [inaudible] like fishbowl of chocolate.

>> Oh, yes, [overlapping] --

>> Oh.

>> Like I walked in [inaudible] one day and he was just like [laughter] [inaudible].

>> [Overlapping]; [laughs] yes.

>> But just so you're not [inaudible] how flexible. Like they realized like we are living our lives while also being a graduate student, and that there --

>> Yes.

>> Are going to be things that happen that you're like, "I tried to do this assignment, and it's not happening right now. Can I have a couple more days?" Like, "Oh, yes, sure; fine, fine." Like they -- just the understanding of you have your life and you are -- you then in addition to these other things, and that support. Like you don't find that in many other grad programs. Like that's [inaudible] undergrad program they're like, "It was cutthroat. I got no support. [Laughter] They didn't email me back." I'm like, "I had the complete opposite, like [overlapping].

>> They think that's standard. Chuck was my first student advisor, and the first thing he said to me, "This is a graduate program. You get nothing less than a 3.0 here; nothing less [inaudible]."

>> But they support you with that.

>> Yes.

>> They have the support to do that. But now I'm coming to the end of my career as a rehab counselor, so I want to retire and go back -- return to [inaudible]. And what you were saying about the services and getting all that information coming, that is what my focus has been because in ten years as a rehab counselor I've seen that disconnect when they're coming back and then they have all this money and all these services, but the real how do you get from here to employment, that is the missing piece, and that's really what I want to focus on. This is why I'm going to go into the program because I need to step out of this so that I can [inaudible]. And yes, that is definitely [inaudible].

>> Thank you both. [Inaudible]. Thank you. Yes, really, really nice. So the next part we're going to try to get into the nuts and bolts of the program, and [inaudible] have lived through it, and we'll maybe take like five minutes, if that's all right, go out and help yourself to some chips, or fruit, or water, whatever, let you two venture on, if you want with your weekend. You could stay, but it's up to you [overlapping] --

>> No, you won't let me [overlapping]. [Laughter]

>> [Inaudible] for a couple minutes, and then we'll just pick up in like five minutes, okay?

>> Yes, I've got [inaudible].

>> Perfect.

>> But I'll give you both [inaudible].

>> Okay.

>> If you have any questions, and [inaudible]

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>> So we'll -- at this point we'll talk a little bit about program -- kind of features of the program, and then towards the end we'll talk a little bit about kind of the application process and what that's like, some tips and guidance for it. And you know, we have both the distance and the on-campus based program. And one of the things I probably should explain first is a little bit about the differences between the two. The distance program is fully online, and obviously the campus-based program is mostly campus based, although there's some hybrid courses that, you know, is distance online. But for the most part I have a strong [inaudible] to it. We start a new on-campus program every fall. We start a new distance program once every three years. And that's because we need -- in part it's because we need enough of a cohort for the university to allow us to offer the classes; they won't let us offer a full distance -- three-year distance program, but they could. So you have to kind of build up to that. So the next distance program that we anticipate starting is in fall of 2021. That's when the next distance program will start. And also I think it's still one of the requirements -- distance program residents need to be outside San Diego County.

>> Yes.

>> We're not supposed to compete with a local program with our distance program. Another thing that people ask us like, "Can we -- can I take some classes in the distance program and some classes in the on-campus program?" And the answer to that is unfortunately no, because -- and it's a long story, but the programs are run through two totally different colleges at the university. So if you're in one you tend to kind of stay in that one; if you're in the other one, you need to stay in the other one, if not you'll be sort of jumping back and forth. It would be nice if we could offer that kind of flexibility, but it's not in the cards; not in the [inaudible].

>> Sure.

>> Both of the programs are 60 units in length so that basically comes out to 23-unit classes. The timeframe for completion, distance program everybody goes through and locks it up, everybody takes the exact same course at the exact same time, and that's done on a three-year schedule, right?

>> Yes.

>> Finish in three years. The on-campus program you have more flexibility because, you know, every course is offered every year basically, with a couple of [inaudible]. And so in on-campus maybe you can adjust your schedule up and down, and you can take more courses, you can take fewer courses, you have more -- a little bit more flexibility with respect to the order of the courses that you can take. Nine units is fulltime at the graduate level, and you know, a typical time for completion is two and a half to three years. Once in a blue moon somebody says, "I want to finish in two years by taking 15 units a semester," and we advise them not to it, for a number of reasons. Nobody who's done that -- there have very few people try it, and then very few actually succeed at it. And then those who do succeed actually say that they didn't learn anything really because the information was coming at them so fast that they didn't really have a chance to absorb it. And then 15 units is a lot to take on if you have family obligations as well. I do field work hour requirements so you have to do field work hours on top of that, and people need to work to make a living in addition. Hi.

>> Hi.

>> And then that also becomes a real challenge. And we typically don't advise people to take 15 minutes per semester, and they'll have to be assigned a faculty advisor, you know, once you're in the program. And if you tell them you're going to take a few weeks, they're going to be like, "[Inaudible]." So typically people take 12 units a semester, or nine units a semester; although sometimes people who drop below that level if they need, you know, [inaudible] their family, or you know, they -- a disability exacerbates, or whatever, there are -- for a variety of reasons people might take [inaudible]. So you have the ability in the on-campus program to adjust your program study up or down; and I'm talking about the [inaudible]. [Inaudible Comment]

>> Oh, gee.

>> Oh, no. Two hours?

>> Oh, gosh.

>> So --

>> Well, I'm Mark Tucker, I'm the [inaudible] program coordinator. Chuck [inaudible] one of the faculty members [overlapping] --

>> Right; I was telling your peers last night -- and Mark you and I talked on Wednesday night.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Yes.

>> What's your name?

>> Kelly.

>> Kelly; okay, great. [Inaudible Comment]

>> So we're just going over some of the program specifics, and then we'll have some Q&A as well as we go along. So the most common times for somebody to get to the program in the on-campus program is two and a half to three years. And it depends on whether you take -- if you take four classes at a time you'll get through it through an app here. If you take three classes at a time, you know, you'll get through this in about three years. So that's just generally the -- kind of the timeframe for completion. Every now and then somebody takes longer than that; you know, we can accommodate that. You've got seven years before your classes start getting erased, so [laughter] you have that amount of time. Typically, that's not needed.

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>> Did you have a question?

>> I do.

>> Sure.

>> I have a question about the fieldwork. So if they like -- if [inaudible], no -- what -- how much fieldwork would that [inaudible]?

>> So all of the -- however you now get yourselves through the program, there's the same fieldwork requirements [overlapping] --

>> Oh, it is; okay.

>> Yes. So fieldwork -- and we can talk about that now. Well, actually, could we come back to it? [Inaudible Comment] I can -- it's definitely something I'm going to chat about here. In terms of course locations, most of our courses are offered up on the main campus in a couple of buildings -- if anybody is familiar with SDSU, almost all of our courses are in the Education and Business Administration building, which is on the east side of campus; or North Education, which is adjacent to that building, so it's [inaudible] on our campus. They're not the most modern buildings [laughter] in the world, but we have a couple of classroom that we've made sure have a [inaudible] in them for -- and most of students have disabilities; some of them are [inaudible] impairments. And so we try to get a schedule that really fits our reality, so. We had --

>> And the classes, are they all evenings and Saturdays in our program --

>> Yes.

>> Pretty much?

>> So all of the classes are evening or Saturday classes [inaudible]. So two -- now two classes in some of these programs will be a Saturday class, right? Is that right?

>> I think so. Like next semester --

>> Maybe a little bit --

>> We're doing a series, and one of the psych rehab classes so like every other Saturday. Like I'm teaching both those classes so like my schedule in the spring is pretty much all day every Saturday, and then I have my section of internships is like 4:00 to 7:00 every other Friday. So it's pretty -- it's -- a lot of our students work, so the class schedule works pretty well if people have a work schedule, or other commitments.

>> Yes; that's -- the typical schedule if you were taking one class -- let's take -- let's set the Saturday classes aside for just a second. If you were to take one class, you would meet on campus -- or at your site location one time a week for two hours and 4 minutes. So it's not like undergraduate when you have Monday, Wednesday, Friday classes or Tuesday, Thursday classes. Your class will be a Tuesday class, or a Thursday class, or a Wednesday class, or a Monday class. And that those two hour and minute blocks we are -- all of ours are set up for late afternoon or evening, which allows our students to work or do their fieldwork. The class times are 4:00 to 6:40 at night, or 7:00 to 9:40 at night. And I know 9:40 can be kind of brutal, but it is something that allows everybody to work, you know. And the majority of our students work either when they're on their way into the program, or at some point on the way are working or are engaged -- definitely engaged in their fieldwork thing; that's a requirement of the program. So Monday through Thursday; you don't have any classes on Fridays. But Monday through Thursday your classes will be either 4:00 to 6:40, or 7:00 to 9:40, and if you were taking three classes a semester, you would have three two-hour and 40-minute blocks of it. Every now and then somebody's schedule pulls them back to back and then they have six classes other Monday, and then maybe one other class on a Wednesday or something like that. There are two classes I think that we offer on Saturdays, right? And those are all-day classes, eight hours, but they only meet once a month, right?

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>> Right; like --

>> Yes.

>> Five times a semester.

>> Five times total. So you'd substitute one Saturday -- five Saturdays for 15 two-hour and 40-minute class on a Tuesday or [overlapping].

>> The two different times --

>> Yes.

>> Are classes offered in both of those time slots or --

>> No, they're offered -- you know, every now and then we have classes that have multiple sections, like the accounting practicum that's offered multiple sections, in which case you might have the flexibility of like, "Oh, it's offered Monday at 4:00, or, you know, Thursday at 7:00."

>> Okay.

>> But for the most part a class is offered -- [Overlapping Comment] And the reason we do that is to keep -- I've seen them in their scheduling room, Lisa and Karen working on scheduling it to try to make sure that the classes are offered in a way that like no classes are to be taken by first-year students conflict with each other.

>> Yes.

>> Oh.

>> No classes to be taken by second-year students conflict with each other; or third-year conflict with each other. So it's designed to minimize schedule conflicts.

>> Okay.

>> But what that means is like if you want to take the research method class that I teach, it's going to be at, you know, Wednesdays at 10:00, whether you take it this semester, next semester the following semester, the following, it's always kind of like that. Like it's a few other classes. Internships, practicum, we have multiple sections, so those schedules are a little bit more flexible [inaudible]. Every now and then you will notice you will have that, "I don't like that time so I'm going to wait until it's offered next year." Well, I have bad news for you, [laughter] it's being offered at the same time," yes. So yes, so Monday through Friday that window would be 4:00 to 9:40 p.m. You may have one or two classes in there, and then -- Monday through Thursday, sorry, and then the occasional couple Saturday classes to give you [inaudible] study. Classes up on campus in the Education Administrative Building and the [inaudible] Building. We sometimes have classes down here in this room, which is kind of nice because you can park close by and you have the parking permit and everything for this. [Inaudible] up on campus. Folks use public transportation that's not too far away from our building. [Inaudible] over here as well for people who use public transportation. And then we have one other set of classes, the medical and psychological aspects of disabilities classes are actually offered [inaudible]. [Inaudible Comment] All right. That's nice. And if we moved around a little bit, depending on the size of the classes, sometimes it's offered right in the Rehab Center, that's where they have it there, and sometimes it's offered in at another facility. But it's a class where we take advantage of a lot of guests for veterans who are affiliated with the medical and, you know, psychological professions, and bring them in if it's convenient for them, and it's also nice for us to kind of see [inaudible]. [Laughs] Yes. So that -- those would be kind of the locations of course. [Inaudible] quite a few accessible by public transportation, although we have students who use public transportation that are able to do it; it's just not convenient stepping off the trolley [inaudible] to their class. And sometimes students will carpool. You know, as you get to know students outside, I think it's another good way to get out there, yes.

>> And you usually they let students go a little bit early. If we knew that they have a class at 7:00, they can get there on time.

>> Yes, if I'm involved in a [inaudible] classes, and I try to let folks back out by about 6:15 so they've got a fighting chance of getting down to a 7:00 class here if they have it.

>> Yes.

>> And I used to teach back-to-back classes up there and then down here, and I could do it 95% of the time. So [laughs] the other thing is if it turns out that it's becoming an issue, you know, I can always talk to the 7:00 professor and say, you know, [overlapping] -- [Overlapping Comment] Yes. Right, exactly; and it hasn't been an issue in the past so hopefully --

>> Yes.

>> It continues [inaudible]. [Laughter] Fieldwork hours; so we were -- we mentioned that we would talk about that. So as a requirement for graduation from the program, and as a requirement imposed on us by our accrediting bodies, and as a requirement to set for exit exams, which is a sort of [inaudible] exam which is a national certified exam [inaudible] counselors, we use that in lieu of like a thesis, or a portfolio, but you do have the thesis option available to you. Nobody takes that option; rarely [laughter] will anybody take that option, like maybe once every ten years somebody wants to do a thesis. And then we wouldn't necessarily discourage you from that, but you'd have to get an early start. So for all those reasons, though, the national cert, the ability to take the national certified exam, our crediting body, our program requirements, you have to complete 600 hours of supervised fieldwork experience during your time in the program. And we have that sort of slotted into three or four different classes. Our practicum classes, we have beginning practicum class, and intermediate practicum class, [inaudible] and fieldwork hours associated with them. And then in the advanced practicum class, which doesn't have fieldwork hours associated with it, and not everybody takes the advanced practicum class. And again, we have six units of internship, which people can take either one six-unit chunk or a two three-unit chunks. And between intermediate practicum and internships, you have to complete 600 hours. There's an additional 55 hours that people need to complete in the beginning practicum, but they don't count towards the 600 hours, right?

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>> So an additional how many?

>> No, 55.

>> It's part of -- you have to do 100-hour practicum, so you do that by a combination of a time in the field, and then time in the classroom.

>> Yes. We should probably just say 655. [Laughter] But the way that we have it --

>> Yes.

>> Sort of set up is when you take beginning practicum, there's -- it's 55 hours that we need to complete. It's 100 hours; 45 are your classroom hours, and 55 are at a site. And then this would be a -- typically an appropriate site would be where you're with an organization that provides services to adults and I would say probably 14 and up, with disabilities. And kind of the closer it is to [inaudible] the centers that there's a flexibility. So for example, Department of Rehabilitation, the California Department of [inaudible] would be fine, Department of Veterans Affairs. The Vocational Rehabilitation and Employment Section would be fine. Nonprofit community agencies that are focused on disabilities would be fine, like Access to Independence, United Cerebral Palsy, places like that; or any of these services.

>> And we help you, you know, locate those places.

>> Yes.

>> And now I think the way to think about the practicum and internship hours is sort of like a ladder, as you go up your first year and begin a practicum, you're more or less doing like job [inaudible]. You're not really expected to be able to perform like actual duties of a real counselor. And then as you get to see year two, you take intermediate practicum, and then year three as you progress through, you're becoming more and more independent, so by the time you take the final internship class, you're doing a lot of things that your counselor would do or your supervisor at the site would be doing. And so you just kind of keep progressing up as you go through.

>> And the practicum class is focused on development and practicing counseling skills. So it's not like you're just in the field, you're also meeting, engaged in, role-playing, and eventually videotaping with each other, then videotaping with the actual clients. So it's not like you're just thrown to the -- thrown into the pool without knowing how to swim. It's designed to be kind of a guided experience where you get your, you know, use probably the communication skills you've had your whole life, like you kind of learn how to name them, and when to deploy them, and why, and that type of thing. So it's 55 hours of beginning practicum. People usually take that as a second semester. Then in their second year people would usually take intermediate practicum, and in that course. So beginning practicum if you divide it out, it's going to be like three or four hours [inaudible]. Intermediate practicum you're still completing a minimum of 150 hours in the field, so that would be more like spending ten to 15 hours a week at a site. And as Chuck said, your responsibility of what you contribute there would probably increase from just shadowing to potentially sort of working with the counselor and having them work with you to kind of, you know, do work on behalf of a client [inaudible]. And then intermediate -- I'm sorry, internships, right, you need to complete the balance of the 650 -- 400 -- you need to [inaudible] 450 hours, so 150 hours in intermediate practicum, 450 hours of internship. An internship would be if you take it in one six-unit chunk, then you would need to complete all 450 hours [inaudible], which would probably be about 30 hours a week or more.

>> Yes.

>> And if you divide it into two, three of the chunks, then you would probably be more down in the range of, you know, 20 hours, 25 hours; it's probably 20 hours, yes.

>> In mine the [inaudible] is a little different.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> So we can --

>> We'll talk about it.

>> You'll have an advisor, and they'll make sure to keep you on track --

>> Exactly.

>> With everything.

>> Exactly. And those experiences can be paid or unpaid; and your -- the faculty can kind of help you to zero in on what you might want to do. Your fellow students in the program a number of them may be working in the field or have experience in the field; we've had students help each other out, if they're not [inaudible] well. We get a lot of announcements for, you know, paid like positions, and internships types of positions will be circulated to a student list serve that we have. And again, you may be in a situation where you're thinking like, "Well, here's a nice paid opportunity. Well, here's a setting I really want that's unpaid," you know, and you may have to do a little bit of thinking about, "Okay, which of these is better for me, given my needs and what I wanted to accomplish?"

>> So that you could break it up into three separate -- like would you recommend that, or do you recommend that all three are the same [overlapping] --

>> Kind of depends on what works for you. Some people come in and they're working in a setting that is already -- would already fit the requirements.

>> Right.

>> And [laughter] in which case if you want to stay there, that's fine.

>> Yes.

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>> And you can do all your hours there, assuming that this -- it meets the requirements. And then other folks may come in and they might be relatively new to the field. And I want a variety of different experiences where, you know, I want to see what it's like to work in a -- in the social services office at a community college, you know. And then I wanted them to see what it's like [inaudible]. And I might want to see what it's like at an office. So you can sample a bunch or you can kind of just work through, you know, one particular setting if that works.

>> Yes; so with some of the internships available be ones that [inaudible]?

>> The clinical hours have to be done after you graduate, right?

>> Yes. Basically, it's the same, if your license track it's pretty much the same. It's a hundred hours of practicum, and then 600 hours of internship. So yes, you can just take walks -- if you want to do all 100 hours in one-semester practicum, you can do that, you just log your hours. And then -- yes; and then like Mark was saying that the internships you can either -- like if you're working in a job and that counts towards your internships, and you're working there 40 hours a week, you can take the six units' internship and be done with that in that semester; or you can split it up into two and do 300 hours and 300 hours. But then the supervision hours you can't start those until after you graduate.

>> Okay.

>> And then that -- you set that up with Board of Behavioral Sciences. So you can't -- yes unfortunately you can't -- [Overlapping Comment] You have to have those practicum and internship hours for graduation, to meet your educational requirements to pursue the license.

>> Yes.

>> And if you were in a clinical track, for example, you would be encouraged to devote your hours -- do your fieldwork hours in a setting where you're working with [inaudible]. Most of the population [inaudible].

>> But that -- I mean --

>> That's most settings, okay? [Laughs]

>> The reality is -- that's most settings.

>> Sure.

>> Like nobody's immune from --

>> Sure.

>> Mental health issues, unfortunately.

>> But if they were to say like, "I want to do my internship instead of community services," they might have to really justify why that's the case.

>> Or they might need to know if --

>> Yes, well that too.

>> That was probably the other way around.

>> All right; [overlapping] -- [laughs]

>> But then -- [Inaudible Comment] No, I started out as [inaudible], and I had a lot of clients, and I was up in Oakland, and I coordinated a lot with Alameda County --

>> Yes.

>> Vocational Service because a lot of the clients had mental health issues, and they qualified for those county vocational -- the mental health vocational services. So my experience is like -- maybe that's why I ended up kind of specializing in psychiatric rehab because of -- yes there -- everybody has -- lots of people have mental health issues, and just because you have one disability doesn't mean you're like immune from having --

>> Sure.

>> The anxiety, or depression, or --

>> Right.

>> Anything like anybody else. So yes we're pretty flexible. And I have my license, I have my CRT. So while you're in the program here, you're -- you'll always be covered, as far as like supervision requirements, you know. We try to encourage you to make sure that somebody at the practicum and internship site is certified, or has a license, but that -- again, that's flexible, because it's not always available.

>> As long as we're talking about this, I want to talk about program specialization. So I do want to talk a little bit about how the LPCC track differs from regular rehab company program tracks.

>> Okay. So basically yes, if you're license track, we partner up with the child -- what is, T --

>> Childhood [inaudible] development?

>> Child and School Psychology or something?

>> County and School Psychology.

>> County and School Psychology Department. So they also have students that are [inaudible] are licensed. So we share some classes. There are three classes that are offered through that CSP department that you need to have on your transcript for the license. It's like a [inaudible] disorder, trauma -- [overlapping] --

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>> BSM?

>> What is it?

>> The BSM, [inaudible] BSMs.

>> Oh, I think --

>> Human development.

>> Psychopharmacology. And then in our own department we offer a human development class. There are two psych rehab classes. So you just -- you have to make sure that you take those classes. And right now -- especially those CSP ones, they're only offered every other year. So I work really closely -- like I do a lot of -- give out a lot of information to the first-year students, because you have to start planning right away to make sure that you've fit those classes in during your, you know, two and a half, three years that you're here. But that's --

>> Yes.

>> Yes, the practicum and internship is just a little bit different, but all our students share -- typically, you know, the internship or practicum sections are offered, and we're pretty flexible about, you know, where -- who your supervisor is. You know, we try to work it out so that -- I try to work it out so that I'm supervising the license track counselors. But we always make sure that you meet all the qualifications that you need to graduate and everything. But that's -- I think that's probably the biggest difference with the license track is just making sure that you're getting those extra classes in.

>> And when you talk about [inaudible] track, you still have the [inaudible]. If you come out of any of the other tracks, you have a [inaudible]. And earlier on we sort of said like we're [inaudible] we have counselors who work, right, and so we've talked about a few of them already, like the Department of Rehabilitation, which is a state agency that provides most rehab services for the people in California. And every other state has at least one of those agencies, and some have two; so there's roughly 80 of those agencies across the country. And they're all called something different in each state, so they all have different names, but every state has one. So there's mobility across, you know, the country. And in fact places like Guam and America Samoa, you know, have -- and a couple of them in Northern Marianas and [inaudible] -- no Puerto Rico, have them as well; but not even just limited to the continental US or anything like that. That's one area where we see a lot of our graduates going. Another area where a lot of our graduates work is in student disability services on community college campuses and in -- on the four-year institutions. There's a lot more community colleges than there are public four-year institutions. So that's a very common area where folks go to work. [Inaudible] Vocational Center, which is part of the Regional Center Network statewide [inaudible] provide services [inaudible] intellectual development disabilities, pretty much from birth to death, actually.

>> Yes.

>> And a number of our student [inaudible] work there, have, you know, graduates work there, that's another common area. The Department of Veterans Affairs, Vocational Relocation and Employment Services is another area where [inaudible].

>> Yes. [Laughter] Right; a lot of places like that.

>> Yes. And there's a pretty robust network of nonprofit organizations, Telecare, Mental Health Services, United Cerebral Palsy, Access To Independence, [inaudible] Services, then you have Center for the Blind, disability-focused organizations, those are really sort of common areas where we see our graduates going to work. Every now and then people craft their own sort of paths, you know. And right now, at least presently, the LPCC isn't required to work in those settings. You can work in almost any of those settings without it. But -- because that -- you know, in the future that may evolve a little bit, right?

>> Yes; I mean, the -- yes the types of jobs that you need the license are probably jobs of like County Behavioral Health, private settings like at hospitals, like Kaiser is now starting to hire licensed -- people with the LPCC.

>> Yes.

>> Veterans their mental health and psychological services --

>> Right.

>> You need to have a license. So that's different than just [inaudible] rehab --

>> Right.

>> Where all you need is your CRC.

>> Yes.

>> I'm trying to think what other --

>> You can open your own practice, right, with an [overlapping] --

>> Yes, you can open your own practice, and bill insurance.

>> Yes.

>> So I think what is kind of important is [overlapping] -- [Overlapping Comment] [Laughter] You know, to be able to tease out like the more traditional voc rehab jobs and I think the more traditional [inaudible] profession has kind of had a long history, and then kind of the expansion of additional opportunities that have opened up [inaudible].

>> Yes; I mean, and besides the license, there's just a really -- it's a really good specialty area of counseling to get into. It's the highest paid specialty, because we do have -- we get all that, the disability and medical aspects training. And we -- you will take that CRC, the certification exam, as your exit exam. And really it's -- there's a lot of benefits to having your CRC. It's preferred in state voc rehab settings, at DOR, that you have that certification, but it's not required. But some people go and specialize in forensic rehab. So there's a whole bunch of people that they end up specializing in like providing testimony in personal injury cases, or providing testimony at social security disability hearings, because there's a whole professional organization called "International Association of Rehab Professionals", and that certification will get you in the door for a lot of that forensic type work, which is pretty lucrative, actually. And then Crystal was talking about, there's lots of opportunities for teaching. Once you have your master's degree, you can teach at the bachelors or associates level. There are so many schools in this area, and online schools. Like you'll be able to teach like, you know, bachelors of the human development courses, and like intro to health and human services courses, stuff like that. So yes between that voc rehab it's -- setting, private settings, counseling, license type settings, veterans, the VA and so forth, and then forensic, like there are so many opportunities once you get this degree. So I just -- I can't say enough about getting a master's in rehab counseling. Like it -- I'm so -- it's been -- when did I graduate, I graduated from the University of Iowa in '97, and then came out to California. And I just -- I can't believe all the opportunities I've had in this field. And I've gotten lots of leadership opportunities. Because we are a really small centralized counseling field, it's -- there's lots of leadership opportunities and different professional organizations you can get involved with. Like since I did my PhD I've gotten involved with American Rehab Counseling Association, and they're affiliated with American Counseling Association, which has like 55,000 counselors, and a big conference every year, and the conference is going to be here in San Diego in the spring. So it's a great field, and just yes lots of opportunities. And like we were talking about before, like just little -- you kind of find your niche and, "Hey, where's --" you get your education here, and then you kind of figure out, "Hey, here is like a little project I can do," or, "Here's a need in the community."

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>> Yes.

>> So I just -- I think it's a great master's degree, so --

>> Yes; I think, you know, one of the things a lot of people have questions about like, you know, "Do I pursue the LPCC, or just the master of science degree without the LTTC?" And there's a lot to just kind of take into consideration. So if you're sort of on the fence, then I think it makes a lot of sense then to talk to us, talk to Sonya, for sure because she knows way about it -- way more about it than Chuck and I do -- but we know a little, and you know, do some research of your -- on your own as well. But it is something where if you're going to pursue that, you need to get on that track early, because otherwise you're going to wind up taking some courses that aren't going to help you and you'll have to take more courses than are necessary. I want to talk a little bit about the different program specializations that are offered throughout the program. And I'll start by just saying you can go through it and not specialize in anything. You can go through what's called the "general track", and get the broad-based exposure to the field, without any real specific emphasis, but we cover a lot. And if you do that, you'll have two electives in your program, and you can kind of use those to sort of fill in gaps that you might -- where you might want some additional knowledge, some additional knowledge. So with that said, there are three specializations and then the LPCC, which we've already probably talked about a little bit. So if you wanted to talk a little bit about the college of [inaudible].

>> Yes. Yes; so this is an area where -- you know, as I mentioned before we focus on autism, learning disabilities, intellectual disability, and then acquired brain injury. And the students who go through this program I think they often come in knowing that they have this particular interest. And so what -- you know, we -- in terms of like the sequencing of courses, you have a little more time to kind of take if you want to be in this specialization. I would say you would want to know by the end of your first year, assuming that it's a three-year -- you're taking three years to finish the program. Some of the courses are courses you've already taken within the master's degree. And then some of the courses are specialized within cognitive disabilities. And they're only taught once every two years. So you -- that's why you want to kind of plan ahead for that if you think, you know, you want to do that. I think -- you know, the reasons why students would want to do this is that they look at the end point of what they think they want to do when they finish the program. You know, as I mentioned before, like the VA is a very common employer, DOR, the DSPS offices and community colleges, those are the three primary areas where students go into the specializations for employment. And I think one of the reasons why they -- you know, it's valuable in that respect is that you get a lot of networking within those areas, especially like we have found within the DSPS system, it really helps if you have a networking system to get into those kinds of jobs. You know, knowing people within -- you know, if they can hire you, knowing about open positions, knowing about like teaching opportunities, all those things that are really essential to get into that system. And so the networking really begins like within the program, within the classes. And I think like the -- one of the values of the specialization is that when you get into the specialization courses in particular, there's a lot of really close bonding, connection, a lot of intense discussions, projects, all focused on these areas of cognitive disabilities. And you know, I've actually done some research on this with some of the graduates from this specialization. And they have stayed in contact for many years after they finished the program. And they've talked about times where it's really been key to getting them job leads, to making referrals, to have your people to consult with. And again, this is for like I think individual students, you know, that really know that this is something they want to focus on. It was -- a fair amount of students who come into the specialization because they have a personal connection to cognitive disabilities. We have students who have had brain injuries. We've had students who have family members with autism, intellectual disability. So I'd say that's fairly common, and then adds another motivation for why students would want to go into this. I think just generally thinking about like why you might want to do a specialization, you know, those reasons I just mentioned I think just also practically that you get a certificate from SDSU and my kids in the area of cognitive disabilities, so it's something you could put on your resume, and it goes on your official transcript. It's something you could say to an employer that, "I have advanced training in this particular area, beyond probably what other graduates, you know, might have." And I think for some jobs where you're going to come and see, you know, people with cognitive disabilities like the VA because you have so many individuals with traumatic brain injury, you could say that, "I have some specialized instruction in that area." And that can make -- you know, that sometimes can make the difference in terms of getting a job versus not getting hired, or getting an interview versus not getting an interview. And then the final thing I want to say is that I often will involve students in my own research, and I will primarily look at students within my specialization as people social work with me on studies. You know, the reason for that is just because I -- they are more likely to have the same kind of interest that would have them more likely to be working and studying, where they're working with individuals with different kinds of cognitive disabilities, ad they have more insight and more training in that area. So I think that can be a motivation for any of the different specializations we have. You know, if we're looking at doing the research, and maybe thinking about a doctoral program down the road, and you know, so there can be many motivations. I think, you know, you really want to -- let's say, you know, you're both admitted -- or you're all admitted to the program, you're going to be assigned a faculty advisor, you would want to have some discussions about these different options within the program. And just think about the pluses and minuses, how [inaudible] career plans. And then you enroll, all of us are -- will always be available for those discussions. One of the things that, you know, we did talk about is that, you know, you're assigned a faculty advisor, but we're a small faculty, we're not silent in any way. We -- all students talk to all faculty. We all talk to each other all the time. And it's very much like a family kind of environment, I would say. So we are there to answer your questions, support you, guide you in your career in any way. And I think, you know, again, the specialization could -- might be a really key part of your training within the program.

>> Then you have this like rehab specialization; do you want to talk about that for a sec? [Laughter]

>> We're kind of --

>> No?

>> No.

>> We're kind of along the same lines as the license track; like you can either do the full license track, or you can just do the psych rehab certificate. So, again, that's just -- I think it's like four classes, and everybody takes the group class. There are two classes that everybody takes.

>> Right.

>> They take anyway; and then there's -- then you take the two psych rehab classes, the Psych 601 and 608.

>> Yes.

>> And then you do your internship, and you put together a portfolio with like your best papers. And then we go over that as though -- your last semester. Yes; so some people just opt to do the psychiatric rehab certificate, rather than go the full --

>> Right.

>> License track.

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>> Yes; the two classes that would have been your electives in the general program. If you specialize, they become dedicated to that specialization, so they would become two psych rehab certificates for the classes -- or two cognitive disability focused classes. And I think Karen Sacks is the department chair also [inaudible] for people to do some technology specialization. And that would be of interest to people who are, you know, interested in learning more about assistive technology and how that can be -- kind of help level the playing field for the disadvantaged [inaudible]. And it's run -- it's basically along the same type of a thing where those courses then become spoken for. The electives you would then take [inaudible] assistive technology focused electives, rehab technology focused electives. You would do some of your fieldwork hours in a setting where we have technologies as a prominent feature. And one of the two courses is a joint course offered with the Department of Engineering, which pairs engineering students with a rehab counseling student, and a person with a disability, and they work on designing or identifying, sourcing an accommodation to meet the need that this particular individual has. So that class is very applied, but it also is sort of like bringing together often like engineers, and rehab [laughter] -- [Inaudible Comment]

>> Yes, definitely we're all there.

>> Right?

>> And you need both of them [inaudible] together like to look at the solution. So but that's another option as well. And again, with all of those you probably should be thinking about making that decision within the first year or so, so that you can squeeze in courses that are needed to --

>> Yes.

>> Complete the [inaudible] certificate, right? So, again, you don't have to do any of those, but you have all three of those options in addition to having the LPCC options. So there's a variety of ways you can sort of chart your path through the program and come out on the other side with knowledge that hopefully is valuable to you, and [inaudible] professionally. I want to talk a little bit about the RSA stipend. So I'll start this, but at some point I'm probably going to hand it over to you, [laughter] since you've lived with this stuff for a long time.

>> Yes. So the organization, the federal organization that oversees all of the state vocational rehabilitation institutes, like California and all the other states, and Guam, and Puerto Rico, and American Samoa, is in the Department of Education. It's called the "Rehabilitation Services Administration". They've got a vested interest in trying to make sure that there's an adequate supply of rehabilitation counselors to meet the need out there that are educated at the master's level. And one of the ways that they do that is by offering [inaudible]. And it's made available sort of on a competitive basis, but rehabilitating counseling programs across the country can submit proposals to compete with for these spots. And the proposals vary quite a bit. And then furthermore, we don't always just have one, we usually have two or three, or four. They start at different types, they expire at different times, they have different amounts, they have different eligibility requirements. So it's kind of a complicated picture. But the -- some of the common features are typically that a student, if we have funding available -- and that varies a little bit from year to year because sometimes they decide, "We're going to delay making these funds available." It's possible that we might submit a proposal and not get it. It hasn't happened in a while, but it could happen. If funding is available -- and we have a long history of it generally being available, there's what's called a "payback requirement", so people who get, say, they agree to take those [inaudible], and they agree that they were going to work in the field for a year in a qualifying setting, looks at the settings in rehab -- it's mostly a typical setting; and most of the settings in rehab.

[ Inaudible Comments ]

Yes, yes. But you're usually making pretty good money [inaudible].

>> Yes; you're making -- yes.

>> You'll find out [inaudible]. [Laughter] [Inaudible Comments]

>> Yes. I was just going to say, yes, it's [inaudible], state, voc rehab settings, or the VA.

>> The VA.

>> It's like any public agency or a nonprofit that works with those types of agencies. [Inaudible Comment] So yes, it's pretty wide open.

>> Right; and then like the DSPS offices.

>> Yes.

>> Yes, qualify as well. So for every semester of support you get, you agree to work one year in the field [inaudible]. So if you get like four -- you know, let's see, four -- yes support for four semesters, then you would work fulltime in the field for four years, and you would pay it off.

>> Or you can work part time for eight years, and then -- so they do the -- [Inaudible Comment] Like flexing.

>> Now, if you decide, "I want to go into banking" or something else, then they're going to want you to pay the money back.

>> Yes.

>> But with the [inaudible] if you -- with the payback they automatically think, "I'm going to have to give this money back." No, not if you work in the field you don't.

>> And you have two years' --

>> Right.

>> A grace period after you're finished to find qualifying employment.

>> Right. And so the -- and the stipends are disbursed as checks. So they come to you with a cashable check --

>> Yes.

>> Or direct deposit. And probably the minimum would be about $700 a month; it might be higher than that; for the month that you're in a school. So that turns out to be like eight months a year. Is it eight months?

>> Yes.

>> Yes; or so, yes. And then there are the different stipends, right now we have two that are ending September, and then two that are ongoing right now. They have different requirements. So Chuck and I have one where the requirement is that for your fieldwork the state voc rehab agency should be your first choice. And if you don't do your fieldwork, then you do 30 hours of job shadowing each semester [inaudible].

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>> Yes; at DOR.

>> Yes, Department of Rehab, right. Sonya is a little different. What's that general --

>> For the internship?

>> No, for the RSA stipend.

>> Oh, for RSA stipend --

>> The eligibility.

>> Eligibility is you have to be licensed track or beginning the psych rehab certificate.

>> Okay.

>> Right now everybody that's getting it is licensed track.

>> Yes. Okay. And would you have an estimate of like what -- roughly what proportion are currently supported by stipends [overlapping] --

>> Typically, it's like 75%. [Inaudible Comment] It's pretty high; yes.

>> Okay. So we can offer that [inaudible]. If next year -- of if they decide like, "We're cutting this off," then, you know, we're sort of at their mercy, but generally they've been pretty predictable.

>> Yes.

>> But every now and then they take a while to get their act together, and there's a month or two delay in the stipend. But we've been fairly [overlapping] --

>> And with the stipend that Mark and I have what would happen will be during the summer we would send a notice out just indicating we have this many slots over for stipends for next year. And then what we have students do is they write an essay on -- showing an interest in working for a state PR or Department of Rehab, and then we do an interview with the student, and we kind of explore like what are the reasons for wanting to do that. And we really -- you know, we try to pick the students that have the -- that they have the clearest, you know, rationale for why they want to go into the Department of Rehab as something that really fits what they do. But, you know, Mark mentioned that we can -- the students can sometimes do clients not at DOR, as long as it's a closely related agency. So like during the interview, they could talk about, "Well, maybe I want to be at a DSPS office for my training because I want to do that. But I see how this could connect to DOR. I'm a potential DOR through down the road." You know, it's really just looking -- you're making sure that there's some kind of DOR interest, because that's really what the grants are about. You know, and that's why the government is, you know, giving us these grants, because they're really -- you know, and they mean more, you know, qualified master's level of counselors to work in a system nationally than the shortage of master's level rehab counselors who work in the state and federal VR system. So the grants are hopefully going to motivate, you know, more students who want to go into that area.

>> With the stipend, so the [inaudible] whatever it ended up per month, that's something that would go towards tuition, or --

>> It comes to you as a check, so you could -- [Overlapping Comment] Do anything you want with that.

>> But we wouldn't advise that.

>> Yes. [Laughter] Yes; you could gamble it all if you wanted to. [Overlapping Comment] Yes; so we have no [overlapping] --

>> One thing about that is -- and I'd -- like I'll preface it by saying like I know virtually nothing about the students' financial aid. But if you do get -- if like -- this is something you said, right, like --

>> Yes.

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>> If you applied for financial aid and you get the full student loan amount for the semester, and then you get the stipend, they will detract that. So if they -- I don't know what the [inaudible] -- let's say it was $10,000 and then they find out you're going to get $2,000 as stipend, they'll disperse $8,000 of student loan to you, and then, you know, you'll be given the $2,000 in stipend. Now, some people will get upset about that, but by the same token you don't have to pay the stipend back in cash, whereas the loan you have to pay it back with interest. So there's that element of it, you know.

>> And, you know, Lisa Brockman, our department coordinator, would be somebody that, you know, we would want you to connect with. She has her contacts with financial aid, and she can be -- she can really answer any questions in a much more direct like kind of informed way. But she's kind of our expert in terms of financial aid questions like that.

>> Well, maybe two out of three [inaudible] to make sure that we talk about, and one is going to be real brief; that we have a rehabilitation counseling student association. That's an opportunity to get involved, kind of taking a leadership role in the program. They, you know, put on events, which might be social events, they might be professional development events, they might be like study groups for helping to get ready for the CRC exam; and typically have officer elections every September. And they were supposed to be here, but they didn't show up, so. [Laughter] So -- [Inaudible Comment] So yes, we need reliable people in the [overlapping] --

>> Yes, right. [Laughter]

>> So that -- you'll likely hear from them in the future, and you know, if that's of interest to you I think [inaudible] you can think about being involved in the student association. They make important contributions. Another thing that we probably won't talk a long time about, but I just want to mention is that we have a small number of students -- typically it's not the majority by any means, but there are opportunities to do international internships. So I would say it's -- maybe it's one student a year or something like that who save like their internship to the end of their program of study, and then decide to do it in another country. And we've had students go abroad and do internships in places like Spain, and the Netherlands, and --

>> Australia.

>> Australia, that's right; and --

>> Ireland; did somebody go to Ireland [overlapping] --

>> Yes, a lot of them are in Ireland.

>> Right.

>> Right? [Inaudible Comment]

>> Go to Mexico?

>> Mexico.

>> Yes. And it's a chance to kind of see and work at a rehab system that -- or in some cases lack of rehab systems, you know, in another country, and get a kind of perspective of how do things look here, versus how do they look in someplace like Ireland, or how do they look in places like Mexico? It's a fair amount of work. It's not like there's [inaudible] are lined up and ready to go. I mean, if you think that's like something you want to do, you need to kind of start fairly early on so that we can kind of arrange your course schedule so that it -- you -- pretty much all you have left is internship during the last semester. Typically you'll need to like Skype into your internship class, you know, and sometimes the hours are kind of weird, you know, with the [inaudible] and, you know, or whatever. But those opportunities are there. And we've had to have like [inaudible] experiences doing that. And we have connections in some areas that will make getting paired up easier, and in other areas, you know, we'll -- you know, it's going to take more legwork. But that's an opportunity that a small number of students take advantage of, but they tend to have pretty meaningful experiences. And it's funny you mentioned our brownbag page, which is where we put up videos of lectures and things like that. There are a number of them, I think, where typically when a student does an internship abroad, then we have them come back and do a brownbag about it afterwards, and so we can find some of those up on that --

>> Yes.

>> That page. I think the last thing is -- at least on my agenda and then we'll have some time for questions as well. And we'll hang out afterwards for questions; is just like what -- applying to the program, what does that sort of look like? And there are actually two different applications that you actually fill out for the program. You have to fill out one through Cal State Apply, that's an application to the university. And then there's a separate department application [inaudible].

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>> Yes.

>> Yes. And then on the university application there's an opportunity to specify LTTC track or traditional track. And people often don't get that right, [laughs] you know.

>> Yes.

>> We've had at least a couple [overlapping] this year.

>> Yes; but it's not that difficult to change like once you're admitted, so --

>> Yes; well you have to wait until the end of your first semester to change.

>> [Overlapping] -- okay.

>> Yes --

>> Yes.

>> It's easier to do it if you indicate -- [Inaudible Comment] When you apply.

>> Right. And so --

>> And that's on the --

>> Cal State Apply.

>> On the [overlapping]. [Inaudible Comment] Yes.

>> Yes.

>> And it will say, "Concentration of clinical rehabilitation counseling and clinical [inaudible] conflict."

>> Okay.

>> And so yes, it's not as -- I think that's probably one of the reasons why there's some confusion.

>> Yes.

>> The language is not like the traditional [overlapping] --

>> Yes; I guess it doesn't say LPCC.

>> We don't use those terms all the time because they're long and kind of convoluted; yes. But --

>> I'll just write down "not traditional." [Laughter] Yes, that will take my [overlapping] --

>> Clinical mental health.

>> Clinical mental health --

>> Yes.

>> Concentration?

>> Yes.

>> And for clinical rehabilitation [overlapping] --

>> [Overlapping]; and how -- because I don't get to see them, like I'm [inaudible] I have to go with kind of what we hear. And there are different deadlines for the different applications. So the university application the requirement is that that's got to be done by March 2nd, 2020. And that's because I think the first is a Sunday. So you can get an extra day. Of course there's nothing wrong with applying early. We like that. And then the department application is -- that's due April 1st, 2020. And that's the additional supporting material that goes with your application, like your transcripts, they have to be in by April 1st. And [inaudible] GRE's of course have to be in by April 1st. So with that, I'll talk a little bit about the GRE. It's a university requirement. It's not something that we put a lot of emphasis on in the application process. Most of our students are nontraditional students. They have -- and they're not coming straight out of an undergraduate program. The GRE I think is often more particular about that [inaudible] than people who come from life experience. So we typically don't regard it. But we'll look at it, and they'll [inaudible] don't count it very much. We base a lot of our admissions decisions on other things, like maybe, you know, how you did previously in school, what your work experience and life experience have been like, your stated interest in the field of what you see yourself doing, and how you can kind of convey [inaudible] and through the personal statements that you prepare as part of your application. We do -- conduct an individual interview with one of the faculty, and each applicant so we can kind of get to know you well, talk with you and see what your interpersonal skills are like face to face, talk with you about the program. It's often the dialogue, it's not just us asking you a bunch of questions, but it's about saying -- covering some of the same grounds we covered here as well. And so we try to take a much more holistic look at the person than the GRE scores, and we don't have like a cutoff score, or if you don't have a certain score you're not getting a look or anything like that. So I hope that convinces you like if you're thinking like, "Oh, do I need to take a GRE prep course" or something like that, I wouldn't waste my money on that.

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>> Yes.

>> You know, it's just not something that -- we haven't found that there's a real strong correlation between people's GRE scores and how they do in the program or how they do professionally afterwards.

>> How old is the GRE scores [inaudible]?

>> Is it five -- I think it's [overlapping] --

>> Well, I think it's possible to go longer than that. I think the kind of standard is often five years. But if you have the actual document, you know, the official printed off scores from ETS, they probably would take it. But how long [inaudible] the scores?

>> I think [inaudible].

>> It probably would -- really.

>> I would [overlapping] -- [Overlapping Comments] One of the things when you apply to the program, there's something called the "Prospective Graduate Student Center", and they can answer questions like that. And let me look -- I'll look up the number right now. [Inaudible Comment] But you guys just give them a call on Monday and just ask them, and they should be able to tell you. But I think they probably would take it.

>> While he's looking that up, another thing that -- you know, that's part of your application package would be letters of recommendation. We ask for three letters of recommendation.

>> Okay.

>> And that's another thing that we would -- I would probably break -- I would pay more attention to people's letters of recommendations than I do the GRE scores. And, you know, it would be helpful, you know, to have those letters come from either people who know what you're like academically, so former professors, instructors; and we realize that for some people that was a long time ago, or you were, you know, in a big program and [inaudible] 300 students in the classroom and you didn't get to know anybody. People who know you in a professional capacity, particularly supervisors, would also be -- or those are typically [inaudible], right, more so than like people that you supervise or --

>> Yes.

>> Something like that. Anything [overlapping] --

>> So I have the number --

>> Oh.

>> So it's 619-594-6336. And I think like especially with the graduate -- Mark mentioned there are two applications; you know, one is to Cal State Apply, the other is to [inaudible]. So the Cal State Apply part in this [inaudible] university application. That's where we -- you send in your transcripts [inaudible]. The Prospective Student Center can answer any questions related to that. I think within our folio -- Mark got [inaudible], but Mark would be like the person to direct those questions to.

>> Yes. Oh. And then, you know, from the interview -- the interview process I think it would be helpful to kind of come in with any questions that you have, you know, [inaudible] questions. And to be prepared to talk about your interest in the profession, and what you -- other professions, and where you see yourself going, and what you're hoping to get out of the program as well, because you've kind of come prepared [inaudible] for the interviews. [Inaudible] to discuss. And with that point, I guess we'll turn it over to questions, if you have questions; anything that we didn't answer in two hours.

>> We went over a lot of stuff. [Laughter]

>> What about class sizes [inaudible]? I mean, it sounded like everything is very intimate and --

>> Yes.

>> I like that, [inaudible] private school, so --

>> Yes.

>> But I'm just curious as to what --

>> Typically like we would admit a group of about 25 each year.

>> Okay.

>> And then -- but within that, you know, the class sizes still vary because if you take like Chuck's [inaudible] disability specialization, not everybody's in that, right?

>> Yes.

>> So that class might have eight people in it, you know.

>> Yes.

>> Accounting practicum classes are capped at 12, so those classes are fairly small people wise, and a typical sort of a lecture or seminar class might have 20 to 25 people in it.

>> Okay.

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>> There's one class that's held in combination with the other master's degree program that's in our department, which is postsecondary education leadership, and that class often might have 35 people in it, but that's probably about as large as the classes are getting, [overlapping]?

>> Yes, they're not very big.

>> Yes.

>> So the -- one of the consequences of that is like the faculty will kind of get to know a little bit about you, you'll get to know the faculty. If you're not speaking up in class, you'll get called out on it a little bit. So that -- [Inaudible Comment] [Laughter] Yes, exactly; but you know, [inaudible] get a little bit of face time with the instructors and things like that.

>> Yes.

>> The professors; and we -- you know, we're not the only [inaudible] in the classes as well. We use a number of adjunct professors, people who are working in the field, who then, you know, come in and teach like one class or something like that. So it's an opportunity to not only network with us, but to network with the other people who kind of teach our classes, and who we all know pretty well.

>> [Inaudible] like a little bit older college students, like is that --

>> No. [Overlapping Comments]

>> You know, it -- I would say the average age of our students is probably in the mid-30s, you know, probably; and but we have people in our program right now who are in their 60s, and we have people in the program right now who are in their 20s. So it's a pretty broad range.

>> Yes.

>> It's a pretty diverse set of experiences in terms of just life experiences. A bunch of -- lot of our -- a number of our students have disabilities. You might know by looking at it, you might not, because they [inaudible] disabilities. For some people this is -- they're looking at their first career, but others might be their second career, or their third career. More women than men; you know, in the -- I would think -- I mean, it varies from group to group like 60/40 --

>> Yes.

>> Or 70/30, depending on the particular [overlapping] --

>> Compared to a program like social work or other kinds of --

>> Oh, yes.

>> Help professions, we definitely have more men [overlapping].

>> Yes.

>> It's far more -- closer to being equal -- not yet, it's not equal, but --

>> I have --

>> More distribution.

>> We took a picture of the foundations class. We had our last class on Wednesday.

>> Yes.

>> So we did a group photo.

>> This group is actually a little bit more closer to equal than some of the groups we've had, I think; don't you, [overlapping] --

>> Probably.

>> This year --

>> Yes.

>> The new class?

>> Yes. I would say it's probably 60/40 or so.

>> Oh, with women and --

>> Men.

>> Men?

>> Yes; but we've had some that are 70/30, [overlapping].

>> Yes; I'm trying -- there were like [overlapping] --

>> And I worked into a social work class to talk about this program, and it was like [inaudible].

>> Yes. [Laughter]

>> A hundred people in there.

>> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> No; yes we get guys.

>> We do.

>> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> So again, not to put too much work on you, but I want to encourage you, you know, to kind of let everything sink in, and just call us with questions; because, you know, we still have a lot of time in the application process.

>> Right.

>> And just, you know, let us know questions that kind of come up. And, you know, another thing that I think that would be possible -- and it would for my class for sure, if you ever want to drop in on a class, observe a class, you could do that in the spring semester.

>> Oh, yes.

>> You know, if you want to get -- kind of get a feel for what class would look like. [Inaudible Comment] All right?

>> Anything you want to add?

>> You can come and see the picture of this -- [laughter] we had fun in that class.

>> You should hold it up to the -- you can go and hold it up to the camera [inaudible]. [Laughter] [Overlapping Comments]

>> I'm going to close off the recording. Mark?

>> Yes, that's fine. [Inaudible Comment]

[ Off-Topic Dialogue ]


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